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I think you're right. Are these slides taking place in localized pockets of unconsolidated tills? But I still suspect that the harmonic vibrations have a lot to do with it -- I think of liquifaction (Yah, I'm lousy speller) during quakes, or how some saturated soils and remain solid until vibration at certain frequencies literally turns them to liquid. Likely a combination of factors. The sand and pore pressure certainly makes sense; perhaps the harmonics are just enough to set things in motion.
I guess my main point is that there is neither a quick, easy or cheap cure. Nor are there really any feasible routes around the area. Reroutes over Stampede or the gorge are reallya temporary solution at best. So, maybe raising the roadbed onto a viaduct in these vulnerable areas might make sense.
Judging from the photos and videos I've seen, it doesn't look like the consolidated tills themselves are giving way; looks like it's the overburden and unconsolidated tills that are coming down. I'm not familiar with all the slide details or the micro geology of each, either..
I was watching KING5 news and they just had a "Breaking News" that said a mud slide has closed down the tracks between Seattle and Everett. They said Amtrak service will not resume until 4pm Tuesday (2-19-2013).
It hasn't been raining that much today? Does anyone know the exact location?
-KristopherJ
As I was running my Sounder this morning there was fresh mud down near Everett Jct. about 100 yards up from the WBCS it was on the Hi line and the Low line. Since we left Everett lite it was most likely the slide was there. We started to load passengers at Mukilteo. Amtrak 510 left early for Everett, also, that would give them time to load the buses from Seattle and Edmonds.
As I was running my Sounder this morning there was fresh mud down near Everett Jct. about 100 yards up from the WBCS it was on the Hi line and the Low line. Since we left Everett lite it was most likely the slide was there. We started to load passengers at Mukilteo. Amtrak 510 left early for Everett, also, that would give them time to load the buses from Seattle and Edmonds.
Judging by the video from KOMO4 (
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/...f-Seattle-affected-by-mudslide-191692401.html) and your discription, it happen at this location.
When I was there back in January, there was older gentlemen taking photos as well. He lives right above the slides atop the bluff. We talked for short time and he mentioned the same thing redlynx did about vibration from heavy trains. He specificaly mentioned the coal trains and oil trains.
Back in the 80s BN ran light intermodal trains over Stevens Pass, what type of tonnage did GN run up north and to the east? Have the trains really gotten that much heavier?
I think its a drainage issue. When I was taking these photos, it was not raining, but you could hear the sound of water trickeling down the hill side.
-KristopherJ
thanks for posting.
"Melonas said there are three rail lines in the area, which are all closed."
what is he referring to?
thanks for posting.
"Melonas said there are three rail lines in the area, which are all closed."
what is he referring to?
I wondered that as well. I figured he ment M1, M2 and whatever the track next to M1 is called. Or the news media doesn't know how to quote someone properly.
-KristopherJ
I was watching KIRO's coverage of the slide. They were shooting from what looked like the pedestrian overpass at Howarth Park. There are three tracks there.
Google Maps didn't show it clearly but on Bing Maps you can see a siding that starts south of the overpass and extends up to the Port of Everett where it splits - one track rejoins the main, one enters the Port.
Todd
I wondered that as well. I figured he ment M1, M2 and whatever the track next to M1 is called. Or the news media doesn't know how to quote someone properly.
-KristopherJ
The Setout track is alongside the sound and it got hit again today and then another slide a couple miles to the west three hours later. No Sounder today, tomorrow and Wednesday when it is going to rain hard, again!! Nothing like a 5 day weekend...
Has there been more of these things in the past few years? Did the old GN have these problems, too?
The Setout track is alongside the sound and it got hit again today and then another slide a couple miles to the west three hours later.
The other one to the west was at MP 26.6.
The other one to the west was at MP 26.6.
Well, somebody has to go clean it up... plus the next one that happens tomorrow.
Has there been more of these things in the past few years? Did the old GN have these problems, too?
A friend of mine who is a retired professional geologist did a slide survey between Seattle and Everett many years ago for the GN. The area will always be prone to slides.
sorta thought that this isn't anything new even if they are set off more frequently by heavies and their vibrations. Maybe we're more aware of it because of the increased passenger use and the 48 hours passenger closure (Lawyers, I'll bet!) after a slide. I'd also surmise that BNSF finds it cheaper to simply clear the slides off rather than spending millions and millions and millions to put the line on a viaduct, or whatever. After all, they do have two other mains into the Seattle area... Of course, if they can get the feds and/or the state to spring for it, it might be another story...
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