Scenic Sub Slides

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Cordis1

New Member
I would be more concerned with running into cougars or bears! Long time ago when walking to Lester with my little son we came across a herd of elk of at least 50 or more. All I had was a big walking stick with me for protection. We saw some work crews at Lester and one said I should have a gun for protection and not a big stick, and that they've seen many cougars and bears wandering around the area.
 

Bluefox

Avid Train Watcher
Mt. Baker Terminal/Boeing Container Transfer Pier

Howdy Jon, Like the Name. Yes it is, to answer your question. As of late its getting quite a bit busier. Boeing is really ramping up. Last week we had 5 ships, and there was 3 the week before. And we have 3 ships already scheduled for this coming week. As more parts are made, there will be more ships coming in, cha-ching. The trickle down is a bit slow right now, but it will be picking up. YAAAA and there is alot of people to hire and train, and they spend their money. Well I'm sure you the drift.
So on my banner for this site is it more correct to say MP 29.1 @ C.P. Mukilteo which it says on the cantanary at the end of the pier, or to say MP29.1 Scenic Sub ? I appreciate your input, thanks.
 

Jon Bentz

New Member
Jon - I see folks parking at the city park at the bottom of Boeing Hill by the Mt Baker crossing and walking down toward the new park at the dock. Is that park open? Is that where your security office is?
 

Bluefox

Avid Train Watcher
Park at Mt. Baker Terminal

Jon - I see folks parking at the city park at the bottom of Boeing Hill by the Mt Baker crossing and walking down toward the new park at the dock. Is that park open? Is that where your security office is?
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Jon, No the Park is not open to the public at this time.
Yes, that little building on the pier is the Security Office/Longshoreman & Maintenance Office when they are working out here. Tonight I met the Crew for the Boeing Train, they ran out of time and ended parking the engines 2080 & 2081 W/caboose on the Pier siding. They thought at first I was their ride, I hated to disapoint them, and invited them in for coffee, but their ride came. maybe some other time. I'll be keeping an eye on the train as usual when it left here.
 

KristopherJ

Photographer
Does anyone know the MP location of the mud slide from 2-22-2012 (or 2-21-2012) that shut down north end Sounder trains? On KING5.com it said it was between Mukilteo and Everett.

Is the the same place at MP 1784.5?

-KristopherJ
 

BNSFEng

Locomotive Engineer!!!
Does anyone know the MP location of the mud slide from 2-22-2012 (or 2-21-2012) that shut down north end Sounder trains? On KING5.com it said it was between Mukilteo and Everett.

Is the the same place at MP 1784.5?

-KristopherJ
As I have gone by there a number of times since then it sure looked like fresh mud to me around that area on the Hi-line. It was not on the double tracked area west of there.
 

KristopherJ

Photographer
On Friday (1-25-2013) I set out to explore the slides on the BNSF (BN,GN) Scenic Subdivision in Everett. I started out at Howarth Park where the SPOEVE was setting out its train.

Compare the first photo here, with the photo I posted on Mark's thread (http://www.railroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42044&highlight=everett&page=3) and you see all of the trees that have been removed. I always thought vegetation helped keep the soil together, but I guess it has been determined that these trees will cause another slide.

In the second and third photo, the MoW crew makes there way to the job site. Mark, was that you driving, or were you in the excavator?
 

KristopherJ

Photographer
I then drove to Everett to see if the Pigeon Creek Trail (http://www.portofeverett.com/home/index.asp?page=63) was open. It was.

The 4th photo is the first slide south of Bond Street. It looks small now but it will definitely grow in size. The next photo is the next slide. At the top-left of the photo you can see a house up there.

The next 2 photos were taken at the location of the train derailment captured in that famous video shot by a Port of Everett longshoreman. In the last photo you see water running down the slide. When you stand there you can hear water running down the hill.
 

KristopherJ

Photographer
The 8th photo was taken at the same location where the photos at the beginning of this thread were taken. You can see another home atop the hill. There are some nice homes up there, I sure hope they get this fixed before one of them comes sliding down.

A little further south is another slide is forming and more trees have been cut down. You can hear water gurgling at this location as well.

The M-EVEPAS passes by the slide area. Notice the black hose at the right side of the photo.
 

KristopherJ

Photographer
The next photo is a close-up of that slide with the hose. Not sure what that hose is for, but more water coming down the hillside at this location.

At Everett Jct. the logging contractor was cutting down trees. It’s hard to tell in this photo, but if one of those trees came down it would take out the signal.

In the other photo is one of the loggers trimming off branches. He than ran the cable from the skidder up and over the tree. It took that skidder little effort to pull the tree down. The soil is just not holding on to the roots.

The last photo is the crew picking up debris and putting it into the slot train.

-KristopherJ
 

markgillings

BNSF Gandy
I was indeed driving. The hyrail excavator and Slot Train excavator are contractors. The famous slide location is actually seen in your 11th picture:
http://www.railroadforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=123937&d=1359242048

The near slide happened very early AM on Tuesday, November 20. We were already out working that night when the track inspector found this one. Cleanup waited for daylight and a new crew. The other slide, across from the locomotives, is the one that derailed the Z train. In the foreground is the rebuilt ditch. The fence used to continue all the way through.
 

KristopherJ

Photographer
I was indeed driving. The hyrail excavator and Slot Train excavator are contractors. The famous slide location is actually seen in your 11th picture:
http://www.railroadforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=123937&d=1359242048

The near slide happened very early AM on Tuesday, November 20. We were already out working that night when the track inspector found this one. Cleanup waited for daylight and a new crew. The other slide, across from the locomotives, is the one that derailed the Z train. In the foreground is the rebuilt ditch. The fence used to continue all the way through.
Thanks Mark, I thought the derailment was further north. Where the skidder was working removing trees, is that RR property, or City of Everett?

-KristopherJ
 

markgillings

BNSF Gandy
The next photo is a close-up of that slide with the hose. Not sure what that hose is for, but more water coming down the hillside at this location.
The hose is to try to get the runoff off the hill and straight into the ditch. When this slide was fresh, there weren't any little valleys that were created by the runoff. That happened over a period of weeks. It was a near-daily occurance to have to ditch out this location as it kept filling up with thin mud.
 

Jon Bentz

New Member
Got the same problem near the Norma Beach boathouse. Fortunately it's not along the ROW but about 150' up the road. It's been running for over a year now. Part of the hillside above slid into a house resulting in the structure being condemned. When it's raining the county is down there daily shoveling out muck. If it ever really lets go a good part of the hill is going to come down on the road and probably flow out onto the railroad.
 

Trackside

Plays Well With Others
Sorry if this has already been answered, but does anyone know why they are cutting down all the trees in these areas? I understand that they do that on rocky hillsides because the trees can split the rocks up, but why on a hillside made of dirt? I was always lead to believe that the tree roots helped keep the hillside together.
 

Ballard Beaver

ballard beaver
I was always lead to believe that the tree roots helped keep the hillside together.
i cant see them leaving it exposed for long, unless they are negligent. they will probably cover with thick erosion fabric/matting and encourage grasses and smaller plants to grow. who knows they maybe will engineer it somehow...dont know if shot-crete ever comes into play in a situation like this.

but yes it does seem strange.
 

KristopherJ

Photographer
I was watching KING5 news and they just had a "Breaking News" that said a mud slide has closed down the tracks between Seattle and Everett. They said Amtrak service will not resume until 4pm Tuesday (2-19-2013).

It hasn't been raining that much today? Does anyone know the exact location?

-KristopherJ
 

redlynx

Member
As I see it, this is problem with the geology of the area. These bluffs are, for the most part, unconsolidated glacial till. It's not very strong. So what happens, likely, is that runoff is concentrated in a given area, and the soil and till is saturated. Really not a great problem unti something disturbs it -- then things get interesting. I suggest that passing trains set up a harmonic vibration in the till and/or soil that literally liquifies it, and then there are these semi-solid slides that bring down rocks, trees and whatever onto the main. They cut loose because there is no adhesion that ties the soil to whatever is beneath... That might explain the extensive tree removal. It just might be that when the soil is peeled off, the exposed till will be more stable. Bottom line is that it is combination of "development" on the bluffs above the mains, and vibrations from the ever increasing number of trains combine to trigger these slides. Solutions? No easy ones, and it's gonna be very expensive. It might be nice if the old NP east side Maltby(?) sub weren't severed, but it is. and even if it wasn't, there would be a huge amount of work to make it useful for heavy use -- and the nimbys along the route would surely set up a howling and whining of biblical proportions... Other old, and long abandoned routes simply aren't practical, and were not exactly high speed and had heavy curvature. So, they have to do something about the slide areas. Tunnels? Maybe... How about moving the mains onto a bridge-viaduct just off shore? Maybe raise the mains onto a viaduct on the existing right of way so the slides simply pass underneath...
In the meantime, I'd lighten the load in this area by diverting whatever can be sent over Stampede or around the horn accordingly -- less vibration. It might also be possible to change track speed to lessen the harmonic vibrations in the area.
It would be interesting to find out if there really has been an increase in these slides in the past couple of decades. I don't think these things are simply going to go away.
Incidentally, they're having a similar problem along I90 just east of Preston.
 

Ballard Beaver

ballard beaver
it might just be semantics, but glacial till (locally called Vashon till) is in fact consolidated...it has been overridden by a glacier, it is super compact, like concrete, and structurally sound.

landslides around here usually are associated with other layers, namely where a glacial sand layer sits on top of a clay layer (both these layers sit beneath the till layer). water perks thru gaps in the till, down through the sand, and then builds up on top of the impermeable clay layer, until eventually the pore water pressure becomes so great that a slide occurs.

there are other modes for landslide occurence but this is definitely the most common. i honestly dont know the details of all the slides between here and everett, though.
 




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